[PLUG] Article in Linux Today about M$ kill UNIX at Universities..

[Rajak]

On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, James Pollard wrote:

> Quoting Jonathan Sergent (sergent@ETLA.NET):
> > /// Jeff DeFouw <defouwj@purdue.edu>:
> >  ] Many of the students have a
> >  ] tough time just doing their labs and projects without worrying about
> >  ] command lines... makes me wonder what they did before.  
> > 
> > How exactly does one intend to be a successful CS major (and/or successful
> > CS graduate) without being able to learn Unix?  There are much more
> > complex systems (using the word "system" in general -- not just operating
> > systems) out there, and in the real world you generally have to adapt
> > to new ones quite frequently.  Operating systems, languages, libraries,
> > tools, networks, protocols, etc.
> > 
> some of the students entering the program have very little experience on
> programming and probably all of their computer experience period is on the
> windows platform.  expecting them to both learn how to program, learn how to
> write java, learn how to use a new operating system, and learn how to use
> the development tools/editors on that system all in one semester is not
> realistic.  yes, they will want to know this before graduation, but that is
> still far in the future (actually they will want to know it by the time they
> take the follow-up courses to 180-181).  if they are capable of learning
> it that fast or perhaps already know it, than i believe that all their projects
> are doable on Linux/UNIX as another poster responded and i think that they
> are even graded on UNIX (a roommate was a TA last year, and i believe that he
> indicated that this was the case) so they are not forced to use windows.
> machines were donated, software was donated that could be used at home (and
> yes, most first year students probably run windows at home exclusively),
> and that is a good thing.  at the very least, when they go to use UNIX they
> will know that they are using a good thing in comparison to what they had
> before and that alone is a reason to stay.

Okay... You say CS MAJORS can't learn how to program in general, how to
program a language in specific, how to use a new OS, and how to use the
tools to boot in one semester. Well, I happen to know that NON CS majors
are expected to do this exact thing in CS158. A friend is taking this
course, and she has to compile her C programs in Unix with gcc. There are
no prerequisite 'programming courses' to teach her how to program either.
If a person who's life isn't revolving around computers can do it,
I'm positive that one's who's life is, can. I believe the first CS courses
coddle CS majors far too much as is. There are too many people who are
misled into believing that CS is easy and are just in it for the money
anyways. Eventually (probably 3rd year courses) will show them this is
not true, but 1st and 2nd year courses have all been dumbed down to a
great extent IMO. Not just in that we don't expect more out of them in the
way of differnt OSes and what not, but in the material itself. I do not
feel its an adequate challenge for the calibre of students Purdue has a
reputation of outputting.

Nor is this the opinion of a person who has been programming since he was
2 and was hacking kernels in HS. I took QBASIC before I came to college.
That was the full extent of my programming knowledge. I do not even enjoy
programming to a great extent but after first semester I had learned Java
(and to a much greater extent than was taught in the course itself) and
C++. Nor is this my sole opinion, for I have met numerous others in the CS
program who have similar, if not identical opinions.


> 
> > I suspect that the people who can't handle Unix are the ones who end up
> > not being able to handle CS in general.
> > 
> you are probably right.  if only we could all design software only for
> programmers and still all get jobs.  eventually some of us will have to
> write programs for the crummy platform that is windows, but that is a
> separate subject altogether.
> 
> > At least they're not teaching C++ as an introductory programming language.
> > But I personally have no trouble writing Java using Sun's tools (i.e.
> > the plain old JDK, or Java WorkShop in a pinch).
> > 
I don't know about you, but not so long ago (last year), JDK was not
exactly fully functional with lots of little discrepenacies.. I was
actually happy to use VC++ because it produced reliable results. JDK on
the other hand, well.. Let me just say it kept a die hard Linux user from
working on his programs at all in the Unix enviroment. It has undoubtedly
improved by now, but as of last year it was not what I would call a
reliable compiler.



> > I think they are teaching on Windows not because it's easier, but
> > because Intel gave them machines and Microsoft gave them software.
> > Has the quality of instruction dropped as a result of the switch?  Do the
> > people running the courses want to be teaching on NT instead of Unix, or
> > have they been asked to do so by the administration?
> > 
> > --jss.
> 
> those are good questions to ask, i don't think the people with the answers
> are reading this list however.
> 
> -Jim

Anyways, sorry about the long rant, but I've been holding back a lot of
frustration with the 'introductory' CS courses. This entire post had
little to nothing to do with the MS taking over our campus thing, but IMO
had to be said.


Brian 'rajak' Poole

Student CERIAS Administrative Asst.


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