[PLUG] Article in Linux Today about M$ kill UNIX at Universities..

[Josh Guffin]

On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Benjamin A. Kuperman wrote:

> Quoting Josh Guffin (guffin@purdue.edu):
> <snip>
> > As was stated before, CS 158 students do it, and they aren't even CS
> > majors. We're CS students, we take pride in geekery.  If you want a
> > watered down CS degree, go to IU.
> 
> What, in your opinion, constitutes a "watered-down" CS degree?  Many of
> the graduate students that are here went to institutions other than
> the bastions of "geekery" that you feel Purdue is among.  What is it
> that we are lacking that Purdue can provide that our prior
> institutions couldn't?  I'm going to argue that at best you might be
> able to quibble over the quality and fame of the researchers and the
> equipment that is available for student use.  In the case of an
> undergraduate education, the quality of the instructors is far more
> important, IMHO.

A watered-down CS degree is one that is comprised of platform-specific
instruction and very little programming theory.  If you just learn how
to turn out the next version of IE, well gee that's cool, go make
money.  A real CS grad could, if they felt the need, port the linux or
*BSD kernels to an abacus.  

I'm not saying that all other schools except Purdue suck.  I'm saying
that we don't need to be teaching CS freshmen windows, unless it's X.
They should be expected to use some form of UNIX, since that will
teach them things like, if something's broken fix it, not reboot and
it may work if the moon is at the right azumuthal angle.  If you can
write your own version of 'ls', then i don't think you're going to
have too much trouble learning Windows APIs, if that's what your job
is.

> 
> > A little work would just weed out the people who don't really want
> > to do CS, who are just in it because they heard you can make a load
> > of cash with a CS degree.
> 
> CS 180 should not be a weed-out course.  I don't think any course
> should be.  I think that standards should be set, and those that meet
> the standards continue on.   People that are looking for job training
> should not be pursuing a degree in CS -- it's just not worth their
> time when Purdue offers other less theoretical programs.  If someone
> decides they want to take the program for the money they will
> eventually get, rather than an underlying enjoyment of the area, then
> so be it.  It's their time and money.
> 

Umm, isn't that what a weed-out course is?  You set standards, and
unless the students are willing to work to meet them, they drop the
class or get a bad grade.  

> <snip>
> > I did take the course, and i thought it was downright stupid.  Both
> > CS180 and 181.  I think i would have gotten more from 180 if i'd
> > learned COBOL. I personally learned to program this summer, writing
> > real code every day.
> 
> Now we are starting to get at the root of what I believe the problem
> to be.  Both students and industry want college to be more of a
> trade-school where students get exposure and experience with whatever
> the industry uses.  In this case, VisualJ++ and Windows happen to fit
> the bill.  MS is willing to pay for the systems and provide software,
> and the department hears that this is what industry folks want.
> Sounds like what we have should be perfect for both of those groups.
> 
> I think the root of the problem is that we get tied up in the
> specifics of a particular language and platform, and do not spend
> enough time dealing with the actual concepts that are needed for
> programming in general.  A simple language like Pascal seems better
> for teaching programming because it lacks the intricacies of Objects
> (C++ and Java) and the wealth of libraries and calls that go along
> with C.
> 
> But everyone is clamoring for "real world" skills, so this sort of
> suggestion goes quickly by the wayside.  I'd rather a student spend
> hours figuring out how to parse a string to read out commands than
> spend hours trying to figure out how to get java.lang.StringTokenizer
> to do it for them.

If everyone is clamoring for 'real world' skills, they're in the wrong
major.  They should be CPT.  Purdue should focus more on the theory
side of computer science.  A degree in CS from Purdue should mean that
there's a damn good chance that you're going to grad school.  

Josh

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= Josh Guffin                                     guffin@purdue.edu =
= Purdue U. HEP - TASK E               expert.cc.purdue.edu/~guffin =
= finger jguffin@physics.purdue.edu        #include<std/disclaimer> =
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