[PLUG] Apology.
Alex Russell
rrussel5@purdue.edu
Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:05:41 -0500
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Matt,
I don’t think anyone is out to castrate you (just yet). And
yeah, your point was fairly valid. As I recall, MS gave the university the
inside track to new versions of VS (as beta testers?) and in return MS got
wide exposure among new programmers. MS subsequently left the university in
the lurch after they’d committed. Not what I think everyone was expecting.
On the upside, this leaves room for a return of the jdk and alternative
editors for the lab setting. My understanding is that they are going to be
replacing VS with something as yet undecided.
I’ve seen programmers castrated by IDEs in industry, and it’s not a pretty
thing. They are generally smart people, they genuinely know how to code, but
they have no idea what a makefile is. It’s a sad thing to see a co-worker
come over to your desk asking where “dir” is in the strange prompt he was
given on server Y. And it just pisses you off when it’s a $200/h consultant.
Wouldn’t be such a problem if everyone was just making applets, but when you
start getting to server-side stuff, odds are you’re going to be running on
*nix in application server X (BEA, JRUN, Oracle, etc…) and pulling code out
of a CVS source tree. Just being familiar with SSH (and to a lesser extend,
telnet), the JDK, shell scripting, and Unix editors will set a programmer
apart as a “serious coder” among the rest. I’ve seen it with my own eyes.
And to those who worry about whether they’ll be able to
transition back and forth, consider Cygwin. The power of a Unix shell on NT,
for free. Yummy.
http://sourceware.cygnus.com/cygwin/
Ok, I’ll shut up. Thoughts?
Alex
+------------------------------------------------+
| Alex Russell Web Developer |
| rrussel5@purdue.edu Student |
| russsella@cerias.purude.edu Geek |
+------------------------------------------------+
| Thomson Consumer Electronics www.rca.com |
+------------------------------------------------+
| www.netWindows.org alex@netWindows.org |
+------------------------------------------------+
-----Original Message-----
From: plug-admin@csociety.purdue.edu
[mailto:plug-admin@csociety.purdue.edu]On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 8:24 PM
To: Plug
Subject: [PLUG] Apology.
I better apologize before I get a bunch of flames....
My previous comments were not intended to be an Anti-Microsoft sentiment.
I should not have used the term "Whore", and for that I apologize. As I
said to Dennis Brylow, I think that the use of Visual Studio may promote
sloppy coding habits, because it does syntax error checking on the fly. The
scenario I used was suppose a new CS student (new to the field) learns on
J++ and later has to move to a *nix platform using, say, VI as an editor and
JDK for compiling and debugging. That person may not pay that much
attention to how good their syntax, and indenting, et cetera... because
they are used to the sdk doing it for them, which in turn may make the
programming experience much more frustrating and unenjoyable (How many times
have you been driven nuts by an "Unterminated String Literal" or the likes
;). I do undestand that it may be easier for a new person (who is only used
to MS Platform) to use Vis Studio, but I know of myself (and a few others,
for I have not polled the school), that I would rather learn the whole unix
platform and editors first, perhaps and Introduction, to the Introduction to
Computer Programming, sorta bridging the gap.
Again, I didn't mean to offend anyone, or come off to narrow minded,
just an error of judgement on my part, and an inappropriate way to express
my opinion.
I will have to make sure that I watch myself in the future:
import matt.mental.dont.be.anidiot;
=]
-Matt
--
| Matt Wirges
| Student, SysAdmin, Programmer, Geek && PLUG Webmaster
| Office: [765]464-1148
| Email: wirges@expert.cc.purdue.edu <mailto:wirges@expert.cc.purdue.edu>
|| sysadmin@sharpwebinnovations.com
<mailto:sysadmin@sharpwebinnovations.com>
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| "Technica Gratia Technicae"
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Ma=
tt,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
[if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><s=
pan
style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'>  =
; </span>I
don’t think anyone is out to castrate you (just yet). And yeah, =
your point was
fairly valid. As I recall, MS gave the university the inside track to =
new
versions of VS (as beta testers?) and in return MS got wide exposure =
among new
programmers. MS subsequently left the university in the lurch after =
they’d committed.
Not what I think everyone was expecting. On the upside, this leaves room =
for a
return of the jdk and alternative editors for the lab setting. My =
understanding
is that they are going to be replacing VS with something as yet =
undecided.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle17><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I’ve seen programmers castrated by IDEs =
in industry,
and it’s not a pretty thing. They are generally smart people, they =
genuinely
know how to code, but they have no idea what a makefile is. It’s a =
sad thing to
see a co-worker come over to your desk asking where “dir” is =
in the strange
prompt he was given on server Y. And it just pisses you off when =
it’s a $200/h
consultant. Wouldn’t be such a problem if everyone was just making =
applets, but
when you start getting to server-side stuff, odds are you’re going =
to be
running on *nix in application server X (BEA, JRUN, Oracle, etc…) =
and pulling
code out of a CVS source tree. Just being <i><span =
style=3D'font-style:italic'>familiar
</span></i>with SSH (and to a lesser extend, telnet), the JDK, shell =
scripting,
and Unix editors will set a programmer apart as a “serious =
coder” among the
rest. I’ve seen it with my own =
eyes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><s=
pan
style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'>  =
; </span>And
to those who worry about whether they’ll be able to transition =
back and forth,
consider Cygwin. The power of a Unix shell on NT, for free. =
Yummy.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><s=
pan
style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'>  =
; </span><a
href=3D"http://sourceware.cygnus.com/cygwin/">http://sourceware.cygnus.co=
m/cygwin/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
[if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><s=
pan
style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'>  =
; </span>Ok,
I’ll shut up. Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
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[if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><s=
pan
style=3D'mso-tab-count:2'>  =
; =
</span>Alex<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
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></font><font
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<p class=3DMsoNormal =
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size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New"><span =
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"Courier New";color:navy'>| Alex Russell<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes"> &n=
bsp;
</span>Web Developer |</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
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|</span></font><font
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<p class=3DMsoNormal =
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></font><font
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</span>alex@netWindows.org |</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
plug-admin@csociety.purdue.edu =
[mailto:plug-admin@csociety.purdue.edu]<b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Matt<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, October 30, =
2000
8:24 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Plug<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [PLUG] =
Apology.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=
p;
I better apologize before I get a bunch of flames....</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> My
previous comments were not intended to be an Anti-Microsoft =
sentiment. I
should not have used the term "Whore", and for that I
apologize. As I said to Dennis Brylow, I think that the use of =
Visual
Studio may promote sloppy coding habits, because it does syntax error =
checking
on the fly. The scenario I used was suppose a new CS student =
(new to
the field) learns on J++ and later has to move to a *nix platform using, =
say, VI
as an editor and JDK for compiling and debugging. That person may =
not pay
that much attention to how good their syntax, and indenting, et =
cetera...
because they are used to the sdk doing it for them, which in turn may =
make the
programming experience much more frustrating and unenjoyable (How many =
times
have you been driven nuts by an "Unterminated String =
Literal" or
the likes ;). I do undestand that it may be easier for a new =
person (who
is only used to MS Platform) to use Vis Studio, but I know of myself =
(and a few
others, for I have not polled the school), that I would rather learn the =
whole
unix platform and editors first, perhaps and Introduction, to the =
Introduction
to Computer Programming, sorta bridging the gap. =
</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=
p;
Again, I didn't mean to offend anyone, or come off to narrow minded, =
just an
error of judgement on my part, and an inappropriate way to express my =
opinion.</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I will
have to make sure that I watch myself in the future:</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>import
matt.mental.dont.be.anidiot;</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>=3D]</span></fon=
t><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-Matt</span></fo=
nt><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
--</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>| Matt
Wirges<br>
| Student, SysAdmin, Programmer, Geek && PLUG =
Webmaster <br>
| Office: [765]464-1148<br>
| Email: <a =
href=3D"mailto:wirges@expert.cc.purdue.edu">wirges@expert.cc.purdue.edu</=
a>
|| <a =
href=3D"mailto:sysadmin@sharpwebinnovations.com">sysadmin@sharpwebinnovat=
ions.com</a> <br>
| <a =
href=3D"http://www.sharpwebinnovations.com">www.sharpwebinnovations.com</=
a>  =
;
<br>
| "Technica Gratia Technicae"</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
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